BPHS and Meenaraja Hora - Verse 8th lord in 8th house viewed through the eyes of KAS - II

From: Ash's Corner@ashtro.ca [mailto:kas@ashtro.ca]
Sent: Wednesday August 5, 2009 2:36 PM
To: 'ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [ancient_indian_astrology] Re: effects n results when 8th lord placed in 8th house.

Dear Sreenadh ji,

Thank you for your mail.

What I am saying and what you are saying based on quotes given in this mail are not any different. I am giving my comments below yours in RED.

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

From: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sreenadh
Sent: Wednesday August 5, 2009 2:22 AM
To: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ancient_indian_astrology] Re: effects n results when 8th lord placed in 8th house.

Dear Ash ji,
Thanks for the informative post. As per traditional astrology -
* A weak 8th house (i.e. a weak, debilitated or combusted 8th lord along with malefic aspects on 8th) indicate suicidal tendencies - In natal chart and prashana the same can indicate suicide. Here the death is self inflicted.

Ash : What I am saying is that IN GENERAL when 8^th house is weak, it means that the native’s individuality is very weak. This is the basic point. There after applying psychology to deduce what that can mean. One way to look at it is that a weak person might resort to committing suicide provided other factors support the same. Prashna is application using the “birth of a question” instead of “birth of a native”, so Prashna is application of Jyotish to a “question” and limited to the question only. The Prashna question must be very specific. If a person asks about inheritance in the Prashna then the result will be different interpretation of 8^th house matter.

* A strong 8th house (i.e. strong, in own house or exalted 8th lord) with strong malefic aspects and combination indicating danger can indicate death inflicted by external causes - i.e. it could be accident, murder etc.

Ash: A strong 8^th house (sign, combustion, AV (yogas) all studied together), means that is converse of the above. A person when face under adverse conditions might not give up so easily. He might struggle to overcome the difficult situation. So in GENERAL death will be of some other cause which is not suicide or SELF (Karak for 1^st) inflicted.

* A strong 8th house with benefic aspects on 8th indicate longevity and survival even in face of danger.

Ash : Basic point in KAS is that when any planet Aspects House A, B or C i.e. if we are talking of 8^th house as the house under focus, then if any planet aspects 3^rd house (A), 8^th house (B) or 12^th house (C) then those planets will not be capable to give the result, their samdharmi can step in.

So, Now if a Benefic (Ju, Ve, Me, Mo) i.e. natural benefics have GENERALLY more than 4 bindus, in their SAV, then those planets if they ASPECT 8^th house then they cannot give the result themselves. So mostly they cannot give their result in the MD. Venus has 20 years in Vim dasha and Ju and Me also have very long MD’s so if they cannot give death and will only give struggle then as the adage goes, what does not kill u will only make u stronger J So again what I am saying and what “Traditional Jyotish” is very much the same.

Now, touching a bit of KAS here, when we compute the TOTAL POWER of A planet for any house, then we already have considered

1) The yogas (based on relative positioning of planets)

2) Upchay house (A, B, C)

3) Considering Parasparakaraka (Mutual Significators) or 4:10 relationship

4) Give special status to 6^th and 10^th lords (D and E) by adding 5 points

5) Aspect on House A, B ,C (so in this case, 8^th, 3^rd and 12^th)

6) Aspect on Lords of A, B and C (based on individual chart)

7) We find that for all 7 planets.

8) We can only get SAV once we know all 7 planets and their relative positioning from each other and lagna.

After doing all the above we get the summation of the POWER, so all the angles are covered.

These are all standard rules ser per classics.

* When the 8th house is moderately strong - the final result will much depend on environment and influences.

Ash: In KAS we can get power in numerical format. So the strongest power planet can give death or 1^st or 5^th lord antra. For natural death, KARAK is important and so is Mool Karak so 3^rd lord and 10^th lord, natural 3^rd is Me and Natural 10^th is Shani.

It is also said that a person with a very powerful 10^th house can have iccha mrytu. Basic logic is that even if a person is dying, if he is not loosing his will power and he is fighting then he can be saved or he or she will not give up easily.

Transits is important for environment and that is considered also via daily points.

I have written an article on Death the ultimate truth in which I have done this study.

Also a chart of Souvik dutta’s list closure (death) was done by me on this list. That must be in the archives. Same rules have been used.

Note: "Strength of 8th house" can for the sake of simplicity can be interpreted as "strength of 8th lord itself". But as per "Hora swami gurunja veekshita yuta" sloka of Brihatjjataka, aspect of house lord, Jupiter and Mercury can also import "strength to a house"; Further the house lord going to Upachaya (3-6-10-11) from that house also increases the "strength of the house" (as per the sloka "lagna lagnapatau balena sahite..........).
Love and regards,
Sreenadh

Ash: Yes, thank for clarifying this, I am also considering the strength as per Ashtakavarg therefore I am considering the yogas and then to get the final power I use the rules listed above to get a more detailed picture. Regarding your point of Guru and Mercury, aspecting a House, then as I said, if Guru and Mercury aspect 8^th house then these planets cannot give death, therefore 16 years MD of Ju and 17 years get added (barring exceptions). Similarly Venus if it aspects then 20 years. Benefics have very long MD’s .

BPHS and Meenaraja Hora - Verse 8th lord in 8th house viewed through the eyes of KAS

Dear Group,

8^th house is the KARAK sthan for 1^st house. Natural 8^th lord is Mars. Lord of Scorpio in Kalpurush chart. Therefore the status of 8^th house will have its say on the 1^st house which is Lagna.

8^th house is 6^th house from 3^rd and 10^th from 11^th house. It is 11^th from 10^th and 3^rd from 6^th. Therefore its upchay from these house and it will help grow the significance of these house. That is the basic definition of upchay sthan.

Now, As per the text given by Sreenadh ji Meenaraja Hora says that the native will be business man. It is quite logical to derive that a person with a strong individuality needs his space and freedom to make his own decisions. Doing a job, where in he might not get full freedom, might eventually quite and might want to do his own or “business”.

Regarding hard working, 8^th house is upchay for 3^rd house. 3^rd house is that of parakram. It is also 11^th from 10^th house which is the house of success of authority (11^th from 10^th).

Now, if say 8^th house is Libra or Aries, then Ve or Ma in own house would also rule the 3^rd house. Therefore the 3^rd lord would also be placed in 8^th house, therefore Mool karak for Lagna is in 8^th house of individuality as well. If 8^th house is Pisces or Virgo, and that would also make 5^th house lord same. Therefore 5^th lord would come in 8^th house and 5^th house is a Trine therefore it is upchay for 12^th house and also eager for 8^th house matters being upchay. Like that you can study for each lagna.

Meenaraja Hora also says that the native will be handsome. 8^th house is Karak for 1^st and a person with a powerful Mangal (natural 8^th lord) and also 1^st lord or Functional 8^th lord in the 8^th house will make a person handsome or with a good personality.

Regarding Spend thrift, I would like to say that any planet in 8^th house will have its aspect on 2^nd house for sure. A planet in own house will have its aspect with equal power but with a malefic drisit on 7^th. Guru, Mangal and Shani will have 3 more aspects. However, all planets will have a 7^th aspect and that will be malefic. Therefore it will not give the result of 2^nd house i.e. accumulation of wealth. However, 8^th house is upchay for 11^th, so it will give income or it will increase the significance of 11^th house as its 10^th house from 11^th or powerful upchay. So if a person is getting income but is not accumulating wealth, then he might be spending it J, making him a spend thrift. He also talks of a FAMILY of spend thrifts, again 2^nd house is that of kutumb as well. Here again this is general, and exception would be if Sa rules 7^th and 8^th house or if the same planet rules 11^th and 2^nd etc etc.

That said, the above is a VERY GENERAL approach and it corroborate what Meenaraja Hora states.

Regarding Parasara’s commentary, he talks of one becoming a Thief, so maybe a person with weak 8^th house might have a weak character, and at the same time its eager to give parakram and also income, so maybe that might lead to cheating others taking the NON HARD WORKING ROUTE and try to make quick income and using his parakram by cheating others. So again upchay of 3^rd, 11^th and weak individuality comes into play. Applying Psychology here.

A weak 8^th house (many planets weak for 8^th house as per ashtakvarg) will increase longevity as strong planets can give death. Therefore if you FOCUS on 8^th house as being weak and many planets being weak for 8^th house results, then what Parasara is saying is more in line??

My 2 cents.

Cheers !!!

Ash

From: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sreenadh
Sent: Tuesday August 4, 2009 4:33 PM
To: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ancient_indian_astrology] Re: effects n results when 8th lord placed in 8th house.

Dear All,
This is a good subject for discussion. Going by the classics -
1) As per Meenaraja Hora
Nithanapatau nidhanagate vyavasayi vyadhi varjito neeruk
Kitava kalakalita vapuH kitavakule jayate manujaH
(Meenaraja Hora)
[If 8th lord is placed in 8th house itself then, he would be a businessman (or hard working?), healthy, peaceful individual and will have a handsome body. But he he would also be a spend thrift who took birth in a family of spend thrifts]
8th is the house of survival (up ajeevana - the essential earning for bread and butter). Thus clearly 8th lord in 8th house makes the it an important house and imparts the self same character to the native - i.e. it makes him a hardworking individual. Health, peace of mind, good body etc all follows that.

2) As per Parasara
Ashtamese ashtamaste tu deerkhayushmanjanjase bhavet
Balaheene tu madhyayuH stenascha gurunindakaH
(Parasara Hora)
[If 8th lord is placed in 8th house then the native will have good longevity. But if that 8th lord in 8th is weak (due to combustion etc) then the nat ive will only have moderate longevity. Further if 8th lord in 8th house is weak then, the native may become a thief or one who blames his guru]
8th lord in 8th amplifying the significance of 8th house is natural - that is why the statement, 8th lord in 8th will increase longevity. But it should also be noted that hard work and suffering are also signified by 8th house - 8th lord in 8th house increases hard work and suffering as well along with longevity.
Further result derivations following the same track of interpretation would be much informative. It will also interesting to learn to identify - suicide, accident death, and murder - based on the strength of 8th house and 8th lord. I invite further discussion on these.
Love and regards,
Sreenadh

Rahu & Ketu - Enigma - Solved by KAS

Dear Group,

Rahu and Ketu are a sort of enigma and a lot of people get confused to understand how these graha’s will manifest in ones life. There is a lot of mythology around it. Some people dread these 2 grahas.

Now the big questions beacons on How would the results of Rahu and Ketu manifest in a chart of a native.

KAS gives us a clear understanding of the same.

There are two different contexts that we judge Ra and Ke on in KAS. One is the Quality and other is for Timing of Event.

Now, in standard VA, I think everyone must have heard that Ra with Mo afflicts moon. Ra with Guru causes a chandal yog. Ra with Mangal makes Mangal more eccentric and so on and so forth. Now these are judged for Quality of Planet and how Ra and Ke affect them.

Now on the same note, you will NEVER find any yog in ANY book which says that if a planet is with Ra or Ke then it SPOILS RA OR KE.

This means that Ra and Ke might change the quality of a planet but its not the reverse.

This also means and clearly denotes that there can be no SAV for Ra and Ketu. Anyone who considers the SAV of Ra and Ke, have not understood the basic meaning of SAV.

Now, all the above discussion is on how Ra and Ke change the quality of a planet and that all has to do with QUALITY and NOT TIMING OF EVENT.

Again, I have said this in the past and I am re-iterating this point again is that Quality and Timing of Event are 2 different and distinct topics.

Now, that we have addressed Quality, we shall talk on TIMING OF EVENTS and how Ra and Ke shall act.


How does one consider Rahu and Ketu?

At the outset I would first request people to refer to Visual 1 on Donna’s website to get a good understanding.

http://krushna.sageasita.com/kas_visuals.htm#VISUAL%20ONE


Rahu and Ketu are shadowy grahas and they are not physical planets like Su, Mo, Ma, Me, Ju, Ve and Sa.

Therefore Rahu and Ketu REPRESENT the Sign lord and Nakshatra lord.

The next logical question that comes to mind then does Ra and Ke represent both lords 50%/50%?

The answer to that is NO, NOT NECESSARILY.

That will VARY from Chart to Chart and it will depend on the Sarvashtakavarga of SAV chart.

You can refer to Visual One to get a good understanding of the same.

Let us Assume that Rahu is in the sign of Guru and Nakshatra of Venus. So as per the law of KAS it will REPRESENT the sign lord which is Jupiter and the nakshatra lord who is Venus.

Now lets take Native A and in his chart, in Sagittarius sign (sign of guru and nak of Ve) Guru has 6 bindus and Venus has 3 bindus. In this case, Rahu will REPRESENT GURU MORE and Venus LESS and to be EXACT in the Ratio of 6:3 or it will be 67% like Jupiter and 33% like Venus.

However it is possible that in Native B’s chart, in Sag (sign of Guru and nak of Ve), due to particular planetary positions, Venus now might have 6 bindus and Guru might have 3 bindus. So for Native B, Ra will represent Venus more than Guru and it will represent Venus 67% and Guru 33%.

So, this will change from chart to chart. Now, what happens if both Guru and Venus say have 5 bindus each ? In that case, it will represent each planet 50%.

The total result of How Ra or Ke will will depend on the power of the planet in the Worksheet row 17. So say if Ra represents Guru more, then it will ACT as per the Power of Guru in the WS.

We also have a law that Ra and Ke if they are placed in House D or E will become very eager to deliver the event. In most cases Ra and Ke represent 2 or 3 planets and those 2 or 3 planets are LoD or LoE for some other houses as well. So in that case, they will also become eager to give the result of those house. So the periods of Ra and Ke can become quite challenging to decipher IF AND I REPEATE IF ONE DOES NOT HAVE THE WS AND THE POWER OF THE PLANET IT REPRESENTS IN ALL 12 HOUSE. This no system gives in numerical format and KAS gives that. So it becomes easy to decode on how Ra and Ke will give results in their antra.

Ra and Ke when placed in the House also become KARAK (as they represent the sign lord) for some house as well. Let us assume Ra is placed in 2nd house. Therefore Ra will become KARAK for 7th house as it is in KARAK sthan for 7th as B. Ra will be in House D for 5th and House E for 9th as well. So it will be eager to give the timing of 5th and 9th and it will also become KARAK for 7th house. Yes, here Ra will also represent the nakshatra lord and that too must be factored in.


So, in KAS, we study Ra and Ke from ALL 8 angles.


Next question that people ask, what about Samdharmi? Does Ra and Ke become samdharmi to the planets they conjoin or if they are in the same sign or nakshatra in Rasi?

The answer to that is NO. Ra and Ke do not become samdharmi to the planets they conjoin in RASI.

However, they DO BECOME SAMDHARMI to the planet they CONJOIN IN NAVAMSA and to the Navamsa depositer. These laws are from the lessons for Navamsa.

So let us assume that Ra conjoins Mercury and Moon and Guru in Rasi and in Navamsa Ra is with Sa in the navamsa of Scorpio.

So here Ra will represent the sign and nakshatra lord just as explained above and here I am using the word REPRESENTS and then Ra will be Samdharmi to Shani and Mangal (navamsa depositor of mars) in navamsa.

So as far as timing of event goes, Ra will represent the sign and nakshatra lord, and in some case, let us assume that sa or ma aspects ABC house then Sa or Ma cannot give the result, so in that case Ra being samdharmi to Sa or Ma can step in for them.

But please be very clear, that Ra will NOT BECOME SAMDHARMI TO MO, ME when they conjoin in Rasi.

This law has been mixed up in the vedic texts that are there as this distinction has not been made clear or it has got mixed up over due course of centuries or millennia. This has been kept in tact in KAS and has clarified this law for all.

Therefore, for a person who follows KAS and gets the power of planets for all 12 house using the Worksheet (KAS program), for them it becomes very clear on who Ra and Ke will represent and how they will manifest for all 12 house of the chart. Who Ra and Ke will become samdharmi to and for which planets they can step in and furnish the timing of event.

Rahu and Ketu at times might represent 3 planets even i.e. in some case if the nakshatra is Ketu or Rahu and they represent 2 other planets. Please refer to Visual one as given above for further clarification.

As per KAS, Ra and Ke have 2nd, 5th, 9th and 7th aspect. For Timing of Event these aspects are Not used. They are used for quality.

Some schools do not consider any aspect of Ra or Ke and some consider 5, 7 and 9th aspect only. There is a lot of mystery around these facts as to whether to consider the aspects of Ra or Ke.

KAS addresses these issue as well, if one studies the laws in depth.

For Timing of Event, we do not consider any aspect. So on one had those who say that Ra and Ke’s aspect are not taken then yes, for Timing of Event DIRECTLY they are NOT considered. However, for QUALITY they are.

If Ra aspects Moon or Conjoins Moon it AFFLICTS moon. What that means is that here one took the fact that Ra conjoined Moon or ASPECTED IT and here it also means we consider both Rasi and Navamsa.

So, if a persons mind is spoilt or afflicted very bad AND IF OTHER LAWS EXISIT TO POINT SOME MENTAL CONDITION then such a person might be a “chand mara” or a person with some mentally challenged individual or some problem with his or her mind or a person might get fits / epilepsy etc etc depending on the severity.

So here, for Quality one does consider the aspect. Even for Child birth, there are laws in KAS were we check If Ra and Ma aspect House B for conception or we say that choosing the time of conception that period must not be afflicted by Ra and Ma. So for such things we do check the aspect of Ra along with the other planets.

Also for chart matching we overlap charts and check if Ra and Sa of Male aspect Ma of female and if Ra and Sa of Female aspect Ve of male. So again here we take Rahu.

So all such differences that I have seen so many Jyotish argue about endlessly are all ADDRESSED and with clarity in KAS and those using KAS automatically are using all these things and might be oblivious to such facts.

Without KAS, I can imagine how complex it might become for those following VA to decipher what results will Ra and Ke give in their antra or MD.

This mail has already become big but I hope it goes a long way to bring light to those who are perpetually struggling with the understanding on how Ra and Ke will act.

Hope that helps,

Cheers !!!
Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

6th House and 6th Lord

Dear Group,

6th house is considered the most malefic house and Guru ji has correctly referred to it akin to a BLACK HOLE. Therefore its lord is the most malefic planet. This is the basic.


Now, 6th House is House C for 2nd, House E for 1st, House D for 9th, House B for 6th and House A for 11th.


As per some Vedic Texts, 3rd, 6th and 11th are said as bad. As per our system, 3rd and 11th are house D and House E for 6th as B. Therefore they are UPCHAY means the house of growth, heap and prosperity of 6th house.


If one has patience and go though the KAS Program and Sheets H1 to H12 in the Worksheets, and study how its designed, so many things will get clear.


Now, that we have established that 6th house is the worst, therefore planets that go into 6th house are like they are going into a black hole where they loose their property or its spoilt.


The opposite of most malefic i.e. 6th house would become the MOST BENEFIC house as 1:7 are opposite and just as debilitation signs are opposite exaltation signs, the opposite of the worst house is the most benefic house which is the 12th house. Therefore planets that go into the 12th house the results denoted by those house get enhanced and the house where the 12th lord goes and sits, it enhances the result of that house.


The Planets going into 6th house, get spoilt and the place where 6th lord goes and sits, it spoils the result of that house.

Now that we know that 6th lord is most malefic planet then, we can then talk of samdharmi. Sam – dharma means similar duty. When planets become samdharmi then they perform similar duty.


Therefore when planets conjoin the 6th lord or become samdharmi to it i.e. refer to the lessons on how planets become SD’s, then they will perform similar duty. Which means that those planets that conjoin the 6th lord will also get the property of 6th lord thereby getting spoilt.


Now, if LoD and LoE which are special, and they are eager planets to give the timing of event, if they become SD to 6th lord then these planets get tainted and cannot give good results or they will give timing but it will not be good due to getting property of 6th lord as its SD to it so it will also perform the duty of 6th lord.


In the same way, if the KARAK planet which is the most important planet, and by that I mean it controls the status of House B, so if that main planet who controls the status of House B is related to 6th lord then it will spoilt the quality of House B or if 6th lord goes and sits in the house of karak or karak sthan then too it will spoil the result of the house so karak sthan gets spoilt or if its SD to KARAK sthans lord i.e. Karak.


Now we talk of Aspect.


The power given by the 6th lord is not good. We use KAS for benefit of Humanity so we only see the GOOD power or the POWER that it gets to doing GOOD.


If 6th lord has less than 4 bindus, then it will aspect by benefic dristi or in other words if it aspects any planet or House, it will ADD that power. Now THAT POWER THAT IT ADDS is NOT GOOD POWER. So that is why we do not add that power in the WS. On the contrary we take out double the power for QUALITY to judge that.


For timing of event, we do not add that power.


Similalry, if 6th lord is in 4th place (in 4:10) so as per our laws, in general we say that the


SUBORDINATE is noble so it will give full assistance to the Boss, but here the SUBORDINATE IS 6TH LORD who is malefic so that will not HELP the boss, but on the contrary that will oppose the boss and that is why we do not ADD the power as we know that 6th lord aint gonna help, on the contrary it will spoil.


Now lets talk of 6th lord placed and its power in SAV.

If 6th lord is placed with more than 4 bindus, means 6th lord has got more support from other planets so its like a BAD CHAP being supported by many people. That will make the 6th lord more confident to do more harm as it gets support and backing from other chaps (planets). So 6th lord placed in any house (remove the exceptions that I gave initially) it will spoil the house its in and also, its aspect will be malefic. More the power, the harsher will be the aspect and more it will spoil the house it is placed in.


So again, if its placed in House D or E or A then its disturbs the main house of timing and also Karak sthan which is most important.


Lastly, 6th lord placed in 6th house with more bindus and if 6th lord is natural malefic then that becomes good. As here a Natural Malefic in a natural bad house will make the planet positive i.e. –ve * -ve = +ve.


So a natural malefic, by being placed in 6th house with more than 4 bindus, then for QUALITY we reverse the points i..e in short, we take the benefic aspect as its now become good. So it will not spoil the house, but infact it will add good power. This is the exception.


Yes, Sun and Moon CAN NEVER BECOME 6TH LORD. They are special.


For dual signs i.e. in all cases apart from sun and moon , they planet will also own another house. So one has to judge carefully before predicting the final result.


Please do not forget that 6th House is House C for 2nd house, B for 6th, D for 9th, E for 1st and A for 11th. For these house, it is not bad as its upchay lord. So please use proper logic and approach.


I hope that this post helps.




Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca