BPHS and Meenaraja Hora - Verse 8th lord in 8th house viewed through the eyes of KAS - II

From: Ash's Corner@ashtro.ca [mailto:kas@ashtro.ca]
Sent: Wednesday August 5, 2009 2:36 PM
To: 'ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [ancient_indian_astrology] Re: effects n results when 8th lord placed in 8th house.

Dear Sreenadh ji,

Thank you for your mail.

What I am saying and what you are saying based on quotes given in this mail are not any different. I am giving my comments below yours in RED.

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

From: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sreenadh
Sent: Wednesday August 5, 2009 2:22 AM
To: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ancient_indian_astrology] Re: effects n results when 8th lord placed in 8th house.

Dear Ash ji,
Thanks for the informative post. As per traditional astrology -
* A weak 8th house (i.e. a weak, debilitated or combusted 8th lord along with malefic aspects on 8th) indicate suicidal tendencies - In natal chart and prashana the same can indicate suicide. Here the death is self inflicted.

Ash : What I am saying is that IN GENERAL when 8^th house is weak, it means that the native’s individuality is very weak. This is the basic point. There after applying psychology to deduce what that can mean. One way to look at it is that a weak person might resort to committing suicide provided other factors support the same. Prashna is application using the “birth of a question” instead of “birth of a native”, so Prashna is application of Jyotish to a “question” and limited to the question only. The Prashna question must be very specific. If a person asks about inheritance in the Prashna then the result will be different interpretation of 8^th house matter.

* A strong 8th house (i.e. strong, in own house or exalted 8th lord) with strong malefic aspects and combination indicating danger can indicate death inflicted by external causes - i.e. it could be accident, murder etc.

Ash: A strong 8^th house (sign, combustion, AV (yogas) all studied together), means that is converse of the above. A person when face under adverse conditions might not give up so easily. He might struggle to overcome the difficult situation. So in GENERAL death will be of some other cause which is not suicide or SELF (Karak for 1^st) inflicted.

* A strong 8th house with benefic aspects on 8th indicate longevity and survival even in face of danger.

Ash : Basic point in KAS is that when any planet Aspects House A, B or C i.e. if we are talking of 8^th house as the house under focus, then if any planet aspects 3^rd house (A), 8^th house (B) or 12^th house (C) then those planets will not be capable to give the result, their samdharmi can step in.

So, Now if a Benefic (Ju, Ve, Me, Mo) i.e. natural benefics have GENERALLY more than 4 bindus, in their SAV, then those planets if they ASPECT 8^th house then they cannot give the result themselves. So mostly they cannot give their result in the MD. Venus has 20 years in Vim dasha and Ju and Me also have very long MD’s so if they cannot give death and will only give struggle then as the adage goes, what does not kill u will only make u stronger J So again what I am saying and what “Traditional Jyotish” is very much the same.

Now, touching a bit of KAS here, when we compute the TOTAL POWER of A planet for any house, then we already have considered

1) The yogas (based on relative positioning of planets)

2) Upchay house (A, B, C)

3) Considering Parasparakaraka (Mutual Significators) or 4:10 relationship

4) Give special status to 6^th and 10^th lords (D and E) by adding 5 points

5) Aspect on House A, B ,C (so in this case, 8^th, 3^rd and 12^th)

6) Aspect on Lords of A, B and C (based on individual chart)

7) We find that for all 7 planets.

8) We can only get SAV once we know all 7 planets and their relative positioning from each other and lagna.

After doing all the above we get the summation of the POWER, so all the angles are covered.

These are all standard rules ser per classics.

* When the 8th house is moderately strong - the final result will much depend on environment and influences.

Ash: In KAS we can get power in numerical format. So the strongest power planet can give death or 1^st or 5^th lord antra. For natural death, KARAK is important and so is Mool Karak so 3^rd lord and 10^th lord, natural 3^rd is Me and Natural 10^th is Shani.

It is also said that a person with a very powerful 10^th house can have iccha mrytu. Basic logic is that even if a person is dying, if he is not loosing his will power and he is fighting then he can be saved or he or she will not give up easily.

Transits is important for environment and that is considered also via daily points.

I have written an article on Death the ultimate truth in which I have done this study.

Also a chart of Souvik dutta’s list closure (death) was done by me on this list. That must be in the archives. Same rules have been used.

Note: "Strength of 8th house" can for the sake of simplicity can be interpreted as "strength of 8th lord itself". But as per "Hora swami gurunja veekshita yuta" sloka of Brihatjjataka, aspect of house lord, Jupiter and Mercury can also import "strength to a house"; Further the house lord going to Upachaya (3-6-10-11) from that house also increases the "strength of the house" (as per the sloka "lagna lagnapatau balena sahite..........).
Love and regards,
Sreenadh

Ash: Yes, thank for clarifying this, I am also considering the strength as per Ashtakavarg therefore I am considering the yogas and then to get the final power I use the rules listed above to get a more detailed picture. Regarding your point of Guru and Mercury, aspecting a House, then as I said, if Guru and Mercury aspect 8^th house then these planets cannot give death, therefore 16 years MD of Ju and 17 years get added (barring exceptions). Similarly Venus if it aspects then 20 years. Benefics have very long MD’s .

BPHS and Meenaraja Hora - Verse 8th lord in 8th house viewed through the eyes of KAS

Dear Group,

8^th house is the KARAK sthan for 1^st house. Natural 8^th lord is Mars. Lord of Scorpio in Kalpurush chart. Therefore the status of 8^th house will have its say on the 1^st house which is Lagna.

8^th house is 6^th house from 3^rd and 10^th from 11^th house. It is 11^th from 10^th and 3^rd from 6^th. Therefore its upchay from these house and it will help grow the significance of these house. That is the basic definition of upchay sthan.

Now, As per the text given by Sreenadh ji Meenaraja Hora says that the native will be business man. It is quite logical to derive that a person with a strong individuality needs his space and freedom to make his own decisions. Doing a job, where in he might not get full freedom, might eventually quite and might want to do his own or “business”.

Regarding hard working, 8^th house is upchay for 3^rd house. 3^rd house is that of parakram. It is also 11^th from 10^th house which is the house of success of authority (11^th from 10^th).

Now, if say 8^th house is Libra or Aries, then Ve or Ma in own house would also rule the 3^rd house. Therefore the 3^rd lord would also be placed in 8^th house, therefore Mool karak for Lagna is in 8^th house of individuality as well. If 8^th house is Pisces or Virgo, and that would also make 5^th house lord same. Therefore 5^th lord would come in 8^th house and 5^th house is a Trine therefore it is upchay for 12^th house and also eager for 8^th house matters being upchay. Like that you can study for each lagna.

Meenaraja Hora also says that the native will be handsome. 8^th house is Karak for 1^st and a person with a powerful Mangal (natural 8^th lord) and also 1^st lord or Functional 8^th lord in the 8^th house will make a person handsome or with a good personality.

Regarding Spend thrift, I would like to say that any planet in 8^th house will have its aspect on 2^nd house for sure. A planet in own house will have its aspect with equal power but with a malefic drisit on 7^th. Guru, Mangal and Shani will have 3 more aspects. However, all planets will have a 7^th aspect and that will be malefic. Therefore it will not give the result of 2^nd house i.e. accumulation of wealth. However, 8^th house is upchay for 11^th, so it will give income or it will increase the significance of 11^th house as its 10^th house from 11^th or powerful upchay. So if a person is getting income but is not accumulating wealth, then he might be spending it J, making him a spend thrift. He also talks of a FAMILY of spend thrifts, again 2^nd house is that of kutumb as well. Here again this is general, and exception would be if Sa rules 7^th and 8^th house or if the same planet rules 11^th and 2^nd etc etc.

That said, the above is a VERY GENERAL approach and it corroborate what Meenaraja Hora states.

Regarding Parasara’s commentary, he talks of one becoming a Thief, so maybe a person with weak 8^th house might have a weak character, and at the same time its eager to give parakram and also income, so maybe that might lead to cheating others taking the NON HARD WORKING ROUTE and try to make quick income and using his parakram by cheating others. So again upchay of 3^rd, 11^th and weak individuality comes into play. Applying Psychology here.

A weak 8^th house (many planets weak for 8^th house as per ashtakvarg) will increase longevity as strong planets can give death. Therefore if you FOCUS on 8^th house as being weak and many planets being weak for 8^th house results, then what Parasara is saying is more in line??

My 2 cents.

Cheers !!!

Ash

From: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sreenadh
Sent: Tuesday August 4, 2009 4:33 PM
To: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ancient_indian_astrology] Re: effects n results when 8th lord placed in 8th house.

Dear All,
This is a good subject for discussion. Going by the classics -
1) As per Meenaraja Hora
Nithanapatau nidhanagate vyavasayi vyadhi varjito neeruk
Kitava kalakalita vapuH kitavakule jayate manujaH
(Meenaraja Hora)
[If 8th lord is placed in 8th house itself then, he would be a businessman (or hard working?), healthy, peaceful individual and will have a handsome body. But he he would also be a spend thrift who took birth in a family of spend thrifts]
8th is the house of survival (up ajeevana - the essential earning for bread and butter). Thus clearly 8th lord in 8th house makes the it an important house and imparts the self same character to the native - i.e. it makes him a hardworking individual. Health, peace of mind, good body etc all follows that.

2) As per Parasara
Ashtamese ashtamaste tu deerkhayushmanjanjase bhavet
Balaheene tu madhyayuH stenascha gurunindakaH
(Parasara Hora)
[If 8th lord is placed in 8th house then the native will have good longevity. But if that 8th lord in 8th is weak (due to combustion etc) then the nat ive will only have moderate longevity. Further if 8th lord in 8th house is weak then, the native may become a thief or one who blames his guru]
8th lord in 8th amplifying the significance of 8th house is natural - that is why the statement, 8th lord in 8th will increase longevity. But it should also be noted that hard work and suffering are also signified by 8th house - 8th lord in 8th house increases hard work and suffering as well along with longevity.
Further result derivations following the same track of interpretation would be much informative. It will also interesting to learn to identify - suicide, accident death, and murder - based on the strength of 8th house and 8th lord. I invite further discussion on these.
Love and regards,
Sreenadh